Agenda for 2024-07-10 CG meeting (#672)

* Agenda for 2024-07-10 CG meeting

* Updated minutes

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

* Update meetings/2024-07-10.md

Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

---------

Co-authored-by: Hadrian Zbarcea <hadrian@inrupt.com>
Co-authored-by: Ted Thibodeau Jr <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

meetings/2024-07-10.md

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+# W3C Solid Community Group: Weekly
+
+* Date: 2024-07-10T14:00:00Z
+* Call: https://meet.jit.si/solid-cg
+* Chat: https://matrix.to/#/#solid_specification:gitter.im
+* Repository: https://github.com/solid/specification
+* Status: Draft
+
+
+## Present
+
+* Hadrian Zbarcea
+* [Rahul Gupta](https://cxres.pages.dev/profile#i)
+* Jeff Zucker
+* Rui Zhao
+* Grace Elcock
+
+---
+
+## Announcements
+
+### Meeting Guidelines
+* [W3C Solid Community Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar).
+* [W3C Solid Community Group Meeting Guidelines](https://github.com/w3c-cg/solid/blob/main/meetings/README.md).
+* No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur.
+* Join queue to talk.
+* Topics can be proposed at the bottom of the agenda to be discussed as time allows. Make it known if a topic is urgent or cannot be postponed.
+
+### Participation and Code of Conduct
+* [Join the W3C Solid Community Group](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/join), [W3C Account Request](http://www.w3.org/accounts/request), [W3C Community Contributor License Agreement](https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/).
+* [Solid Code of Conduct](https://github.com/solid/process/blob/main/code-of-conduct.md), [Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct](https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/)
+* Operating principle for effective participation is to allow access across disabilities, across country borders, and across time. Feedback on tooling and meeting timing is welcome.
+* If this is your first time, welcome! please introduce yourself.
+
+### Scribes
+* Grace Elcock
+
+
+---
+
+## Topics
+
+### Announcements
+
+#### Per Resource Events
+
+**RG: PREP for the big code dump 💩💩💩💩💩 on Notifications 🔔 (cross post from solid/solid):
+
+For Sending Notifications, we have:
+
+Express Accept Events: https://github.com/CxRes/express-accept-events
+To read 🧐 the notifications headers.
+
+Express Negotiate Events: https://github.com/CxRes/express-negotiate-events
+To negotiaite 🤝 the notifications protocol a client wants.
+
+Express PREP: https://github.com/CxRes/express-prep
+Per Resource Events server middleware for sending 🚚 notifications 🔔.
+
+For Reading Notifications, we have:
+
+PREP Fetch: https://github.com/CxRes/prep-fetch
+Puts each notification into tiny little Response for clients to consume using a familiar API.
+
+Multipart Fetch: https://github.com/CxRes/multipart-fetch
+The only truly streaming 🚿 library for reading multipart response in JavaScript Lands. Powers 💪 PREP Fetch!
+
+* RG updated that has both client and service libraries. You can have notifications from NSS, once the bugs are fixed in NSS. 
+* HZ: are there plans for other open source projects?
+* RG: cannot navigate CSS and need someone from CSS to help. Pavlik may be able to support here.
+* JZ: Michiel and others are involved in a project called Pivot. Intention is to make a fork of CSS and use that as basis as solidcommunity.net, etc. Possible route.
+
+### WG status
+* HZ updated that nothing was new. Should move to AC vote soon — though potentially September. 
+
+### TPAC: Call for Group updates and Technical demos (videos)
+> We invite your group to create a video (or more) to be featured on the TPAC24 website at https://www.w3.org/2024/09/TPAC/group-updates.html
+This is a great opportunity to showcase your work, share updates, and present technical demos of your latest advancements to the wider W3C community.
+Drawing from our experience, we have compiled a set of best practices to help create impactful videos:
+https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2024/Demos_and_Group_updates#Best_Practices_for_Recording_Videos
+For reference, please have a look at the TPAC 2023 videos: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/group-updates.html
+* HZ: Virginia has sent to the mailing lists. We discussed in previous meeting. Few people present today. 
+* HZ: Inrupt has not made a decision yet. Hope to have one end of week. 
+* HZ: Don't think there is a deadline to register for TPAC. Will have meeting there.
+* RG: Cost might increase — early decision could save you some money.
+* HZ: Would be good to think if JZ want to present any demos.
+* JZ: Happy to, if it would be useful.
+* HZ: Maybe the practitioners could. JZ, could you share proposition with practitioners? It's easy to communicate with us if so. 
+* JZ: Will bring up at a practitioners meeting.
+* HZ: No obligation, just an opportunity.
+
+### Solidifying Solid Project
+URL: https://github.com/solid/organizations
+* HZ: Interested parties not present so suggest postponing. 
+* JZ: Interested to hear thoughts, have had good feedback from here, practitioners, and SolidOS meeting. Moving ahead, and welcome others joining. 
+* HZ: All good, though my context slightly different. Thinking about guidance to give app developers for how to store data in a POD. Need to think about decoupling of data from apps. Ruben talked about views. An application uses a view — a subset of a graph — and that is related to what you have here.
+* JZ: Yes, agree about working on a way to present a view. Disagree that this is bound to an application. Purpose is to have a shape that describes the data, so any organisation can use the shape to present the data. Goal is to have client-to-client set of shapes that are interoperable. I am working on one way of presenting a view of those shapes. Anybody else could create a different view.
+* HZ: Agree with everything you have said, but context is larger. Requires some sort of conversation. 
+* RG: When you are describing data in a shape what you are thinking of is putting that data in one file (not generalising it). Then read that data. That is linked to other things in that resource. Some of those links are to the outside world, and some to different containers in your POD. You have diverse linking mechnaisms there. My proposal for simplifying the Solid protocol gets to this (this is not public). Hadrian you have not seen yet - will share privately. How are you going to refine that data within your container? 
+* JZ: Understand that's a problem but nothing to do with what I am doing. I am designing a shape that can be used by an exterior entity to find out what you doa nd what products you have. You might have a bigger shape that you use to connect internally but that is not relevant to a catalogue. Just needs to know this is a thing, this is what it's useful for and where to go to find out more about it. Looking for a minimal shape to use to provide an overview of what's going on in the ecosystem. Only way it relates to things being stored in a POD is where this catalogue lives.
+* HZ: I don't think anyone disagrees with what you say. Don't see it is a problem but perhaps a missed opportunity. Don't think it's the right time to discuss yet. What gives me hope is lots of people think about this independently. How can we take this to resolution?
+* JZ: If people have opinions about where I should be storing things e.g. temp place for vocabularly then open to suggestions. People should let me know if they think differently. 
+* HZ: So no concrete ask now other than figuring out the storage?
+* JZ: Yes, but for people to be aware of it and if they have ideas to let me know. 
+* RG: Have said this to JZ privately, but he is moving faster than anyone in the community right now with things. 
+* HZ: I agree, also activity pods moving quickly too. Jeff, you are doing a great job and have my support. 
+
+
+
+### C2C: Project Management
+URL : https://github.com/solid/specification/issues/641
+* HZ what would it take to complete/close this?
+* HZ: Elf started this so hold till next week when he can join. Commonality between this and Jeff's work - how to we store stuff?
+* JZ: Had a practitioners meeting on shapes and created [solid-shapes](https://github.com/solid/shapes) wiki as resource on shapes. Eventually will pull into other catalogue thing. Decided wiki we could all contribute to was best thing.
+
+
+### How to continue to work around user stories
+URL: https://hackmd.io/oqXhIuS4SbmtmuzD0eufeQ
+URL: https://github.com/solid/user-stories
+
+### How can the CG ingest feedback from Solid users?
+* JZ: Suggested resources should be made available, but was put down to say CG was about forming specifications and not for us to outreach to communities, publicise things, draw wider community. This was when CG was reorganising, so practitioners was formed as part of Solid Team — that's it's purpose: to grow forum, solidproject.org, github things that are managed, etc. 
+* HZ: For the record, when I volunteered for co-chair, I said my role would be to outreach and grow the community. So do not agree that the CG is not about that — I feel it is exactly that.
+* JZ: Go back and read discussion about that. CG has been so focused on spec, it has no connection to new users.
+* HZ: I agree. Part of the CG is to received feedback from the community.
+* RG: I will link you to it, but essential push from SC is that because this is a "W3C CG", it has to do work that is to be channelled into Solid WG. So had supported Jeff, but then agreed for the charter to happen. That is why Jeff went on to form own Practitioners group, which was wise to do. 
+* HZ: Should be a communication.
+* JZ: Agree. If could, then would have practitioners as part of CG(?)
+* HZ: Few weeks ago, discussed in CG that outreaching to OFN, as Maxime works with them. They expressed same desire, as they do not have time to be involved in spec but would like to be. I work on such efforts; we have to improve the 'feedback mechanism' — any ideas about how to do that more formally in the CG? People talk about business models (how you use a spec etc.) and not sure how this feedback can be received.
+* JZ: Having tried to do it through the CG and not been accepted as good path, created separate path of Practitioners. In our overview, it says purpose is to 'provide feedback to the community' — e.g., meeting on search, then special topic meeting where presented to the CG what the practitioners had come up with.
+* RG: On business model, would suggest having a meeting at Practitioners. They are involved in work and trying to prepare businesses/orgs that are using Solid.
+* HZ: Not sure how to solve this. View to only focus on spec, and then other extreme is that community can provide feedback, but in a non-actionable way. Need something in the middle, e.g., discussion forum where solutions can be worked on that lead to changes to the spec/documentation, etc. Not sure who is supposed to do this right now. 
+* JZ: Heard from Maxime: they do not want to spend time fiddling with the specs; they want to build applications and communicate with people what the changes should be. 
+* RG: Agree with 95% of this. When you have fledgling tech, and say want to sit on the sidelines, then suggest you should have conversations with people who are writing the spec — understand the perspective from one another. Has to involve people who are doing practical and theoretical work. I have tried to talk to Maxime a little bit.
+
+